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    <title><![CDATA[[SecurityRatty] tag: talk]]></title>
    <link>http://securityratty.com/tag/talk</link>
    <description></description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
    <generator>iRatty Engine</generator>
    <docs>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss</docs>
    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[BlueHat SDL Sessions Wrap-up]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/5bc4bc363bab903a7f7f8a6245e3234d</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/5bc4bc363bab903a7f7f8a6245e3234d</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi everyone, Bryan here. The debut BlueHat SDL Sessions are over, and they were a resounding success: 96% of attendees completing evaluation surveys reported that they will be able to apply knowledge...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri size=3>Hi everyone, Bryan here. The debut </FONT><A href="http://blogs.msdn.com/sdl/archive/2008/09/25/sdl-sessions-at-bluehat.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri size=3>BlueHat SDL Sessions</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3> are over, and they were a resounding success: 96% of attendees completing evaluation surveys reported that they will be able to apply knowledge that they learned in the SDL sessions to make their products more secure. This is a great score and I’d like to thank all of our speakers and the BlueHat planning team for their hard work. As for the other 4% of attendees, we’ll just have to work that much harder next year to bring them actionable guidance for dealing with new vulnerabilities.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri size=3>As promised, we recorded all of the day’s presentations and we’ve published them on </FONT><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/cc748656.aspx#day2"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>TechNet</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3>:</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd282968.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Keynote Address</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3> by Scott Charney, Corporate VP, Microsoft Trustworthy Computing</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd282977.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Threat Modeling at EMC and Microsoft</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3> by Danny Dhillon of EMC and Adam Shostack of the Microsoft SDL team (of course)</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285253.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Mitigations Unplugged</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3> by Matt Miller, Microsoft Security Science team</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285262.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Concurrency Attacks on Web Applications</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3> by Scott Stender and Alex Vidergar of iSEC Partners</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285263.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Fuzzed Enough? When it’s OK to Put the Shears Down</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3> by Jason Shirk, Dave Weinstein and Lars Opstad, Microsoft Security Science team</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285265.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Real World Code Review – Using the Right Tools in the Right Place at the Right Time</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3> by Vinnie Liu of Stach &amp; Liu</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri size=3>In addition to the presentations, we also recorded some short interviews (about 10 minutes long) with each of the speakers. If you’re just looking for a quick summary of a particular talk, these interviews are the place to start:</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285269.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Threat Modeling at EMC</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3>, Danny Dhillon</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285454.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Threat Modeling at Microsoft</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3>, Adam Shostack</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285260.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Mitigations Unplugged</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3>, Matt Miller</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285461.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Concurrency Attacks on Web Applications</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3>, Scott Stender and Alex Vidergar</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285279.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Fuzzed Enough?</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3> Jason Shirk and Dave Weinstein</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd285463.aspx"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff size=3>Real World Code Review</FONT></A><FONT face=Calibri size=3>, Vinnie Liu</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri size=3>I hope at least 96% of online readers will be able to directly apply this material to their products, just like the show attendees. Please post back and let us know, either way. And let us know what you’d like to see for next year. We have big plans to build on our success and make SDL Sessions 2.0 even bigger and better than the first.</FONT></P><img src="http://blogs.msdn.com/aggbug.aspx?PostID=9161040" width="1" height="1">]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/sdl sessions">sdl sessions</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/microsoft">microsoft</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/microsoft trustworthy">microsoft trustworthy</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/microsoft sdl team">microsoft sdl team</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/vinnie liu">vinnie liu</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/liu">liu</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/web applications">web applications</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/matt miller">matt miller</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/jason shirk">jason shirk</category>
      <source url="http://blogs.msdn.com/sdl/archive/2008/12/01/bluehat-sdl-sessions-wrap-up.aspx">BlueHat SDL Sessions Wrap-up</source>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[Forensic genomics]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/db4fa79fc51e6d9290abb3a8fd263e3f</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/db4fa79fc51e6d9290abb3a8fd263e3f</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[I recently presented a paper on Forensic genomics: kin privacy, driftnets and other open questions (co-authored with Lucia Bianchi, Pietro Liò and Douwe Korff ) at WPES 2008 , the Workshop for...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~fms27/">I</a> recently presented a paper on <a href="http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~fms27/papers/2008-StajanoBiaLioKor-genomics.pdf"><em>Forensic genomics: kin privacy, driftnets and other open questions</em></a> (co-authored with Lucia Bianchi, <a href="http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~pl219/">Pietro Liò</a> and <a href="http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/research-units/hrsj/staff/douwe-korff.cfm">Douwe Korff</a>) at <a href="http://dais.cs.uiuc.edu/wpes08/">WPES 2008</a>, the Workshop for Privacy in the Electronic Society of <a href="http://www.sigsac.org/ccs/CCS2008/">ACM CCS</a>, the ACM Computer and Communication Security</a> conference. Pietro and I also gave a <a href="http://talks.cam.ac.uk/talk/index/13300">related talk</a> here at the Computer Laboratory in Cambridge.</p>
<p>While <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics">genetics</a> is concerned with the observation of specific sections of DNA, genomics is about studying the entire <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genome">genome </a> of an organism, something that has only become practically possible in recent years. In forensic genetics, which is the technology behind the large national DNA databases being built in several countries including notably UK and USA (<a href="http://www.nature.com/embor/journal/v7/n1s/pdf/7400727.pdf">Wallace&#8217;s outstanding article</a> lucidly exposes many significant issues), investigators compare scene-of-crime samples with database samples by checking if they match, but only on a very small number of specific locations in the genome (e.g. 13 locations according to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codis">CODIS</a> rules). In our paper we explore what might change when forensic analysis moves from genetics to genomics over the next few decades. This is a problem that can only be meaningfully approached from a multi-disciplinary viewpoint and indeed our combined backgrounds cover computer security, bioinformatics and law.</p>
<p><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Codis_profile.jpg" alt="CODIS markers" /><em><br />
(Image from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Codis_profile.jpg">Wikimedia commons</a>, in turn from <a href="http://www.cstl.nist.gov/div831/strbase/fbicore.htm">NIST</a>.)</em></p>
<p>Sequencing the first human genome (2003) cost 2.7 billion dollars and took 13 years. The US&#8217;s National Human Genome Research Institute has <a href="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/118963.php">offered over 20 M$ worth of grants</a> towards the goal of <a href="http://www.genome.gov/27527584">driving the cost of whole-genome sequencing down to a thousand dollars</a>. This will enable <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_genomics">personalized genomic medicine</a> (e.g. predicting genetic risk of contracting specific diseases) but will also open up a number of ethical and privacy-related problems. Eugenetic abortions, genomic pre-screening as precondition for healthcare (or even just dating&#8230;), (mis)use of genomic data for purposes other than that for which it was collected and so forth. In various jurisdictions there exists legislation (such as the recent <a href="http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-493&amp;show-changes=0&amp;page-command=print">GINA</a> in the US) that attempts to protect citizens from some of the possible abuses; but how strongly is it enforced? And is it enough? In the forensic context, is the DNA analysis procedure as infallible as we are led to believe? There are many subtleties associated with the interpretation of statistical results; when even professional statisticians disagree, how are the poor jurors expected to reach a fair verdict? Another subtle issue is kin privacy: if the scene-of-crime sample, compared with everyone in the database, partially matches Alice, this may be used as a hint to investigate all her relatives, who aren&#8217;t even in the database; indeed, some 1980s murders were recently solved in this way. &#8220;This raises compelling policy questions about the balance between collective security and individual privacy&#8221; [<a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/sci;312/5778/1315">Bieber, Brenner, Lazer, 2006</a>]. Should a democracy allow such a &#8220;driftnet&#8221; approach of suspecting and investigating all the innocents in order to catch the guilty?</p>
<p>This is a paper of questions rather than one of solutions. We believe an informed public debate is needed <em>before</em> the expected transition from genetics to genomics takes place. We want to stimulate discussion and therefore we invite you to read the paper, make up your mind and support what you believe are the right answers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/genomics">genomics</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/forensic genomics">forensic genomics</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/privacy">privacy</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/individual privacy">individual privacy</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/dna">dna</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/national dna databases">national dna databases</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/genome">genome</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/whole-genome">whole-genome</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/kin privacy">kin privacy</category>
      <source url="http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2008/11/27/forensic-genomics/">Forensic genomics</source>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[My Last Logging Interview?]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/3d547d5685870119a9c8edbf13968c4f</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/3d547d5685870119a9c8edbf13968c4f</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[While at GOVCERT.NL 2008 , I gave this fun interview .... check it out

As you can guess, I talk about logs. BTW, while you are at that link , c heck out other fun interviews ; at least, check out...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[While at <a href="http://chuvakin.blogspot.com/2008/09/one-more-thing-about-govcertnl-2008.html">GOVCERT.NL 2008</a>, I gave <a href="http://www.govcert.nl/symposium/audiovideo.html">this fun interview</a>.... check it out.<br /><br />As you can guess, I talk about logs. BTW, while you are at<a href="http://www.govcert.nl/symposium/audiovideo.html"> that link</a>, c<a href="http://www.govcert.nl/symposium/audiovideo.html">heck out other fun interviews</a>; at least, check out David Rice's.<div class="blogger-post-footer">About me: http://www.chuvakin.org</div><div class="feedflare">
<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/AntonChuvakinPersonalBlog?a=RVx4N"><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/AntonChuvakinPersonalBlog?i=RVx4N" border="0"></img></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/AntonChuvakinPersonalBlog?a=rqYFN"><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/AntonChuvakinPersonalBlog?i=rqYFN" border="0"></img></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/AntonChuvakinPersonalBlog?a=xwJaN"><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/AntonChuvakinPersonalBlog?i=xwJaN" border="0"></img></a>
</div><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/AntonChuvakinPersonalBlog/~4/458922880" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/check">check</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/fun interview">fun interview</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/fun interviews">fun interviews</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/david rice">david rice</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/link">link</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/org">org</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/govcert">govcert</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/logs">logs</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/heck">heck</category>
      <source url="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/AntonChuvakinPersonalBlog/~3/458922880/my-last-logging-interview.html">My Last Logging Interview?</source>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[The Economics of Finding and Fixing Vulnerabilities in Distributed Systems ]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/8a34266a61546df04c75d0de7416a33d</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/8a34266a61546df04c75d0de7416a33d</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[The Economics of Finding and Fixing Vulnerabilities in Distributed Systems
Quality of Protection Keynote
Alexandria, VA
October 27. 2008

Gunnar Peterson
Managing Principal, Arctec Group
Blog:...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>The Economics of Finding and Fixing Vulnerabilities in Distributed Systems&#0160;</div><div><a href="http://qop-workshop.org/Program.htm">Quality of Protection Keynote</a></div><div>Alexandria, VA</div><div>October 27. 2008</div><br /><div>Gunnar Peterson</div><div>Managing Principal, Arctec Group</div><div>Blog: http://1raindrop.typepad.com</div><br /><div>When Andy Ozment asked me over the summer to do this talk at QoP, I knew back in August that the topic I wanted to address was security and economics. So to that end I would like to start by thanking all of our friends on Wall Street and here in Washington DC for providing such a rich tapestry of recent events that I can speak to.</div><br /><div>Like many people in this industry, my focus on security was fundamentally altered by Dan Geer&#39;s speech &quot;Risk Management is Where the Money Is&quot;[1], there are not many people who can call a ten year shot in the technology business, but Dan Geer did. The talk revolutionized the security industry. Since that speech, the security market, the vendors, consultants, and everyone else has realized that security is really about risk management.</div><br /><div>Of course, saying that you are managing risk and actually managing risk are two different things. Warren Buffett started off his 2007 shareholder letter [2] talking about financial institutions&#39; ability to deal with the subprime mess in the housing market saying, &quot;You don&#39;t know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out.&quot; In our world, we don&#39;t know whose systems are running naked, with no controls, until they are attacked. Of course, by then it is too late.</div><br /><div>So the security industry understands enough about risk management that the language of risk has permeated almost every product, presentation, and security project for the last ten years. However, a friend of mine who works at a bank recently attended a workshop on security metrics, and came away with the following observation - &quot;All these people are talking about risk, but they don&#39;t have any assets.&quot; You can&#39;t do risk management if you don&#39;t know your assets.</div><br /><div>Risk management requires that you know your assets, that on some level you understand the vulnerabilities surrounding your assets, the threats against those, and efficacy of the countermeasures you would like to use to separate the threat from the asset. But it starts with assets. Unfortunately, in the digital world these turn out to be devilishly hard to identify and value.</div><br /><div>Recent events have taught us again, that in the financial world, Warren Buffett has few peers as a risk manager. I would like to take the first two parts of this talk looking at his career as a way to understand risk management and what we can infer for our digital assets.</div><br /><div>Warren Buffett&#39;s evolution as an investor can be broken up into two parts. He began his career very much influenced by Ben Graham, who sought to buy &quot;cheap stocks&quot;, comparing the price of the stock to value of the company&#39;s assets, and placing many, diversified bets on companies whose share price was below the total assets. Note that the businesses may have been of unremarkable quality, but when the price was right Graham would buy in, wait for it to rise and then sell. This was the dawn of value investing.</div><br /><div>Buffett&#39;s later career departed from Graham&#39;s strict, statistical measures, where he sought to buy into companies that were selling at a fair price, but were also high quality businesses. We will examine high quality in Part 2 of this talk, but first we go to Part 1 which is asset value.</div><br /><div>Why does a talk on finding and fixing vulnerabilities start with valuing assets? The reason is that vulnerabilities are everywhere, we are literally marinating in them. Interesting vulnerabilities are attached to high value assets. In a world that quite literally presents us with too much information, we need screens to sift out what is worth paying attention to. &#0160;You can run your vulnerability assessment tool of choice on your system, and come back with hundreds or thousands of vulnerabilities, but which ones should you pay attention to and act on? The first part of answering this question is asset value.</div><br /><div>When Warren Buffett was 19 years old studying at the University of Nebraska, he read Ben Graham&#39;s book &quot;The Intelligent Investor&quot;, Buffett said he thought it was the best book on investing he has ever read and still feels that way today. In the Intelligent Investor Graham lays out the framework of value investing. Specifically, Graham talks about three concepts - Mr. Market, a stock is a piece of a business, and Margin of Safety.</div><br /><div>Mr. Market is a fictional, teaching device invented by Graham. You imagine that you have a somewhat manic depressive business partner called Mr. Market. Every day, Mr. Market comes into the office and offers you quotes on companies, some days he is in a good mood and the prices are high, other days he is gloomy and prices are low. The market is a quote machine, for quoting prices, not a value assessment machine. Your job is to wait for the right price, and you are free to take as many passes and be as patient as you would like, Mr. Market will just show up the next day and throw out a new price.&#0160;</div><br /><div>Graham used Mr. Market to teach us the separation between a price of a stock, and the value of a company. The second big concept from Intelligent Investor is that buying a stock is buying a small piece of the underlying business. You are not buying a roulette chip, or a number that fluctuates in the newspaper every day, rather you are buying a piece of the company&#39;s existing and future cash flow. What the stock market says General Electric is worth yesterday, today or tomorrow is separate from GE&#39;s actual ability to generate cash flow.</div><br /><div>The last big concept in &quot;The Intelligent Investor&quot; and the one seemingly most applicable to information security is the Margin of Safety. Graham&#39;s margin of safety involved calculating the intrinsic value of a business and then buying stock where the market cap of a company is less than its intrinsic value. So if a company has $100 million in assets and a market capitalization of $75 million, then an investor would get a 25% margin of safety. Ideally, Graham wanted to buy stocks that were selling for one half of their book value, i.e. with a 50% margin of safety. Graham said that buying stocks without a margin of safety, above their book value, speculation, not investing.</div><br /><div>So price is readily available, but how do we calculate intrinsic value so that we can ascertain the margin of safety? Graham used quantitative statistical measures, relying heavily on the company&#39;s book value, like its hard assets. What would it take for a competitor to reproduce the company&#39;s assets - its factories, distribution system, and so on. The difference between the book value of the assets and market cap is the margin of safety.</div><br /><div>What can we learn in information security from this quantitative approach? Where price and value are readily ascertainable we should build countermeasures and eliminate on vulnerabilities that give our assets a wide margin of safety. Since budgets are not unlimited we should prefer vulnerabilities that are cheap to find, cheap to fix.</div><br /><div>First to the asset question, information security budgets like all IT budgets are crufty, they are not a reflection of today&#39;s top issues and priorities so much as an accumulating snowball of decisions, legacy contracts, and solution attempts to yesteryear&#39;s problems. Today the normal Information Security budget is just a legacy artifact from bygone years when the network was the purported greatest vulnerability. If you were around in 1995, you remember the great gnashing of gears as the enterprises opened up their networks, connected their back ends to the Web and began to transact business in the giant virtual space.</div><br /><div>The security people huffed and puffed that it was dangerous but there was simply too much money to be made, so businesses went ahead. The security people would not go down without a fight and insisted on countermeasures. They got two - the network firewall and SSL. The firewall was used to separate the average Fortune 500s network of hundreds of thousands of machines, employees, consultants, and partners from the web at large. SSL was used to protect the network channel between the web server and the client browser. so the network firewall separated the network segments, and SSL in effect encrypted the last mile of many million complex transactions and computations.</div><br /><div>In 1995, this seemed like a good security architecture. When we built out these security architectures, the eCommerce market was derided as a toy. Amazon famously lost money for years - losing a little on every transaction but making it up in volume. When the market is nascent, a quaint security architecture offers cost effective protection. But what about 2008? Those cute little eCommerce buggers have grown they even make profits now - market caps measured in the tens of billions, accumulating large cash hordes, no debt, and the largest ones are in better financial shape than the financial services players that kicked sand in their face in the dotcom era.&#0160;</div><br /><div>And its not just eCommerce, the &quot;real&quot; economy Fortune 500 types are all connected as well. Directly and indirectly the Web is seeping into all businesses. Major changes from when the security architecture of the web was built out. But has the security architecture changed to reflect these new business realities? Not a bit of it!</div><br /><div>We can use the book value of the IT budget investments and the book value of the Information Security investments to see what kind of Margins of Safety Information Security groups are engineering.</div><br /><div>Let&#39;s look at some market data, Gary McGraw reviewed the numbers [2] in software security for 2007, breaking down software security sectors like tools and services. Here is a summary of his findings on software security tools:</div><br /><div>&quot;One of the most important developments in the software security market can be seen in the tools space which, combined, almost doubled to $150-180 million. Top of list are two major acquisitions that closed in 2007: Watchfire&#39;s purchase by IBM (somewhere in the range of $120-150 million on 2006 revenue of $26 million) and SPI Dynamics&#39;s purchase by HP (for around $100 million on 2006 revenue of $21.2 million).</div><br /><div>...</div><br /><div>The black box space was flat in 2007, with IBM/Watchfire checking in at $24.1 million and HP/SPI Dynamics earning $22.3 million. Smaller companies in the space, including Cenzic, Codenomicon, WhiteHat and the like had combined revenues around $12.5 million (a growth of 25%, though Cenzic grew 16% and WhiteHat 52%). Most of the growth &quot;hiccup&quot; in the black box market can be attributed to the serious challenges posed by any acquisition. So far 2008 looks to be back on track from a growth perspective in the black box testing space. The global reach that IBM and HP offer are already making a big difference.</div><br /><br /><div>On a more positive note, static analysis tools for code review grew at a healthy clip in 2007 into a $91.9 million dollar market. Fortify was up 83% to $29.2 million. Klocwork grew over 60% to $26 million. Coverity grew over 50% to $27.2 million. Ounce Labs tripled their revenue to $9.5 million.&quot;</div><br /><div>These are very nice growth numbers, what company doesn&#39;t want 83% growth? However, the let&#39;s look at the total picture and compare the software security countermeasures against other security mechanisms. Gary McGraw&#39;s estimate shows the software security space coming in at $150 Million total, yet we see a company like Checkpoint that won the network security war in 1995 with earnings of around $900 Million! One single network security vendor is 6 times bigger than the entire software security space, in what alternate universe does this make sense?</div><br /><div>This is where we begin to see that decisions in the People&#39;s Republic of Information Security have no real risk management thinking, they truly are swimming naked and hoping the tide doesn&#39;t go out.</div><br /><div>Let&#39;s look at network assets. Obviously Cisco is the biggest, they earned $39.5 Billion last year. Pretty stellar. So spending $900 Million (Checkpoint) to defined $39.5 Billion seems like a pretty good deal.</div><br /><div>Except, let&#39;s compare software security spending - last year Microsoft earned $60 Billion, SAP $16 billion, and Oracle $22 Billion. So that is about $98 Billion in just three vendors and you are going to &quot;defend&quot; that with allocating $150 Million worth of software security tools?</div><br /><div>On the network side we are buying $900 million of security countermeasures (Checkpoint firewalls) to protect $39.5 billion worth of Cisco gear, about 2.3% of the network investment goes to security.</div><br /><div>On the software side, we are buying $150 million of security countermeasures (like static analysis and black box scanners) to protect $98 billion of software (you know the stuff that runs the whole business), roughly coming to about 0.2% of the software budget goes to security.</div><br /><div>This is very disturbing. From a prioritization standpoint The People&#39;s Republic of Information Security is misaligned by an order of magnitude at least. Next time you read about a data breach, or see an auditor&#39;s report with thousands of findings you won&#39;t have to wonder how it happened. It happened because Information Security doesn&#39;t have its eye on the ball, it invests in network security not because those controls have greater efficacy (the whole point of networks is they are dumb), no, they invest in network firewalls because they bought a bunch in 1995, some more in 1998, and heck they just kept buying them, the Checkpoint rep kept showing up and taking CISOs out to play golf, contracts got renewed, and poof - there goes the security budget.</div><br /><div>Consider that software security tools could grow 50% a year for five years and still be half of where Checkpoint is today.</div><br /><div>The optimistic way of looking at all this data is that there is major room for growth for software security, if you take network security as a target for a mature industry and assume that 2.3% is a reasonable margin of safety, then the software security space should evolve to around 2% of the software space meaning that it should evolve into a $2 billion space around fifteen times larger than it is today. Unprotected assets will either be protected or will cease to be assets, VCs get your check books ready.</div><br /><div>My friend Brian Chess has a nice way of looking at this he says 2007 was the turning point - &quot;the first year there was a bigger market for products that help you get code right than there was for products that help you demonstrate a problem exists.&quot;</div><br /><div>Now I am not suggesting that Information Security budgets have to be aligned with IT budget one for one, but I do think that looking at the overall IT budget is the starting point. If Information Security has a more cost effective security mechanism they should deploy it, but the starting point should be aligned to the business. Businesses spend most of their money on software, and there are very good reasons - competitive advantage, increased revenues and lower costs. Information Security spends most of its money on network security, and there is no good reason why, except that it was a seemingly good idea in 1995. You really don&#39;t have to go beyond the book value of IT investment as a whole versus Information Security to see a stunning disparity. Information Security&#39;s job is to deliver a Margin of Safety to the business, but they are not.&#0160;</div><br /><div>To deliver a real Margin of Safety to the business, I propose the following based on a defense in depth mindset. Break the IT budget into the following categories:</div><br /><div>- Network: all the resources invested in Cisco, network admins, etc.</div><div>- Host: all the resources invested in Unix, Windows, sys admins, etc.</div><div>- Applications: all the resources invested in developers, CRM, ERP, etc.</div><div>- Data: all the resources invested in databases, DBAs, etc.</div><br /><div>Tally up each layer. If you are like most business you will probably find that you spend most on Applications, then Data, then Host, then Network.</div><br /><div>Then do the same exercise for the Information Security budget:</div><br /><div>- Network: all the resources invested in network firewalls, firewall admins, etc.</div><div>- Host: all the resources invested in Vulnerability management, patching, etc.</div><div>- Applications: all the resources invested in static analysis, black box scanning etc.</div><div>- Data: all the resources invested in database encryption, database monitoring, etc.</div><br /><div>Again, tally each up layer. If you are like most business you will find that you spend most on Network, then Host, then Applications, then Data. Congratulations, Information Security, you are diametrically opposed to the business!</div><br /><div>Its not just about alignment for alignment&#39;s sake, its about applying controls as a way to have a Margin of Safety properly placed so that when not if there is a failure on a higher value asset you are relatively better positioned to deal with it.&#0160;</div><br /><div>The pure statistical approach can only take us so far. Buffett said he would be a lot poorer if all he did was listen to Ben Graham. Book value is great to see the diametric opposition mentioned above, but it doesn&#39;t really tell us much about the efficacy of the security mechanisms.</div><br /><div>What we do get out of this statistical approach is a screen. The asset value screen filters out subjective opinion and narrows the field for where we need to dig in to do the high value, time consuming analytical work.</div><br /><div>The second part of Warren Buffett&#39;s career and the second part of this talk leave behind pure statistical measures. In Warren Buffett&#39;s case he was joined by a guy named Charlie Munger who talked him out of the pure Ben Graham approach. Charlie Munger has a saying - &quot;a great business at a fair price beats a fair business at a great price.&quot; Where Graham was focused on price and margin of safety, Munger wants a fair price but also a high quality business. This lead to Warren Buffett&#39;s company Berkshire Hathaway investing in companies like Coca Cola, Wells Fargo, and American Express, where the prices were far from dirt cheap (as Graham would have wanted), but the long term returns were outstanding.</div><br /><div>In our world of Information Security, we start by aligning our priorities with the business using the thumbnail defense in depth approach, but then we would like to invest in high quality, effective controls.</div><br /><div>To get at the notion of control quality and effectiveness, I am going to start part 2 of this talk with a brief history of software. The first web software was just static HTML, but web software really got interesting when developers started creating dynamic websites using CGI an PERL.</div><br /><div>Once websites were hooked up to company databases and were not just serving static content, the security people realized they needed a security architecture, and they sprung into action. What they came up was was model that divided the world into &quot;good stuff&quot; which was comprised of all their networks, systems, and data; and then there was everything else the &quot;bad stuff&quot; on the Internet. So job one of the early days Internet security architecture was to separate all your good stuff (i.e. your network) for the bad stuff (the Internet). To do this the security people used a sophisticated tool called Visio to draw a flaming brick wall on the network diagram, and this flaming brick wall was supposed to keep the good stuff and the bad stuff separate.</div><br /><div>The security people also realized that the data and session tokens that they served up from their Web server would have to traverse the &quot;bad&quot; neighborhood called the Internet, so they added one more security mechanism to secure the last mile of the transaction - SSL between the browser and the Web server.</div><br /><div>And this was the state of the art security architecture used circa 1995 to protect the earliest dynamic web applications.</div><br /><div>What happened next was that the dotcom boom started to happen and businesses realized they could make some real money on the Web, the web apps started to get more sophisticated, more personalization, richer session experiences and so on. This led the Java people to create JSP and the Microsoft people to create ASP, and of course the PERL people to create even greasier PERL scripts, all of this in the effort to pooling resources and sessions on the Web server. The security people defended this new application programming model with network firewall and SSL.</div><br /><div>Around 1998, developers began building out more distributed N tier or 3 tier applications that separated the business logic layer, the presentation layer and the data access layer. Among other things, your web application could seamlessly integrate data from multiple back ends systems. Let&#39;s say you have pricing data in Oracle, order data in SAP, and customer data in a Mainframe. You write separate data access objects, apply business logic in the middle tier and then you tie it all together in a friendly user interface. At this point the web applications are beginning to integrate across departments and geographic boundaries, huge critical chunks of the business are now connected to the web. How did the security people defend this part of the business? They applied the same 1995 security architecture - network firewall and SSL.</div><br /><div>Around 1999-2000 timeframe businesses relied on web applications for major parts of the revenue, and the apps were built in different technologies like Java and Microsoft technologies, but the customer didn&#39;t care (still doesn&#39;t), the customer wanted (and still wants) data access and functionality. So to integrate the disparate technologies, SOAP and XML were deployed so that Microsoft could talk to Java and so Websphere could talk to Weblogic and so on. And, oh yes, SOAP and XML were used to connect B2B networks so partners in a supply chain and business process can exchange data and interoperate. &#0160;SOAP and XML present a fundamentally new programming model based on a message document style integration, where XML is used to mesh together data and functionality across platforms. SOAP and XML have no security model by default for authentication, authorization, and confidentiality. How did the security people deal with this? They kept the security architecture the same as they had in 1995 - network firewalls and SSL.</div><br /><div>The software world did not stop innovating in 2000 of course, in the last few years we have seen Web services and XML form the basis of baroque and powerful SOAs and simple REST applications. We have seen Web 2.0 come on the scene, and entirely new networked applications built on top of that.</div><br /><div>What we have not seen, is a single meaningful change in security architecture in 13 years. Developers have evolved, businesses have increasingly bet their entire business models on the web and they have increased security budgets. But what has the security architecture as its deployed in the field got to show for all of this? More firewalls and more SSL connections.</div><br /><div>Since Information Security has proven incapable of evolving, it is time to learn from a discipline that has mastered innovation - software development, and yes, I will step back in case the lightning bolts hits.</div><br /><div>What does software development focus on these days? Well, let&#39;s look at Service Oriented Architecture (SOA), all hype aside I look at SOA as a set of technologies that delivers three things:</div><br /><div>Virtualization: we want Beijing, Bangalore and Boston to communicate.</div><br /><div>Interoperability: we want our .Net stuff to talk to our java stuff.</div><br /><div>Reusability: how many order/claim/pricing/customer systems does one company need?</div><br /><div>To build out their SOA, developers separated the application interface from its implementation. So you can host the interface in a variety of locations, but its separate from the application logic and data.</div><br /><div>This is also a useful trick for putting services like SOAP through the firewall. SOAP was designed as a firewall friendly protocol. When SOAP first came out, Bruce Schneier said calling SOAP a firewall friendly protocol is like having a skull friendly bullet. Which is a great line and explains why his books fly off the shelves, it does not explain, why security people think an architecture designed in 1995 is the one we should be using today. Maybe the problem is not that the developers figured out how to go through the firewall to get the data their customers want, maybe the problem is that the firewall is the sum total of the security architecture, and it never adapted.</div><br /><div>A big part of this problem is that we have left Newton&#39;s world behind and entered Einstein&#39;s universe. Mainframes are Newton’s world, we have THE computer, THE price, THE record and so on.</div><br /><div>As Pat Helland explained [4,5], Mainframes are Newron&#39;s world, but Distributed computing is Einstein’s world. More specifically in the Einstein world of distributed computing - &quot;Computers don’t make decisions, computers try &#0160;to make decisions.&quot; Our computers don&#39;t really make a decision, they say you can buy this book from Amazon at this price, we have it in stock and will deliver on such and such a date. But the warehouse runs out, the pallet gets dropped in the warehouse, your boo is crushed, and the package is stolen off your front step. The computer confirmed your transaction, but the real world intervened.</div><br /><div>So we don&#39;t have iron clad decisions, instead its all about Memories (last time I checked your book was in stock), Guesses (we should be able to ship on this date) and Apologies (sorry the forklift ran over your book)</div><br /><div>Translating this into security, security mechanisms don’t make policy-based decisions, security mechanisms try to make policy-based decisions</div><br /><div>Some examples of memories, guesses and apologies in security</div><br /><div>Memories</div><div>Security Policies - for example Triple A policy</div><div>Triple A policies can memorize a map of subjects, objects, and roles. They can even replicate these memories and play them back at runtime to try to make policy enforcement decisions.</div><br /><div>Guesses</div><div>Security Policy Enforcement Decision</div><div>Unfortunately, while the policy enforcement decisions can be based on memorized logic, the decision itself is still a guess, even in the case of Triple A. Any guesses why? Because, the authentication process itself is a guess. It happens to be a guess that you then bind to a principal so it looks very official once you bind your guess to a Kerberos ticket or SAML assertion, but it still a guess.</div><br /><div>Apologies</div><div>Giant Global Bank is sorry your account was compromised!</div><div>And this leads to lots and lots of apologies by companies with poor access control models.</div><br /><div>Some additional examples of information security memories, guesses and apologies.</div><br /><div>Example Memories - Triple A Security Policies, Audit logs, User account information , Authorization Logic - concrete mapping Subject, Resource, Condition, Action</div><br /><div>Example Guesses - Security Policy Enforcement Decision Points, Authentication Logic, Monitoring, detection, fraud response</div><br /><div>Example Apologies - Identity Management tools - provisioning, deprovisioning, Reimburse customer for fraud losses, Compensating Transaction - Giant Global Bank is still sorry your account was compromised!</div><br /><div>The point of this is that security memories, guesses and apologies utilize different processes, different people, and different capabilities to be effective.</div><br /><div>What trends can we identify to lead us toward better qualitative analysis based on the best practices of virtualization, interoperability and reusability.</div><br /><div>Virtualization</div><div>Finding Vulnerabilities in a Virtualized World is a problem because applications are more configured than coded. Runtime behavior and structure not apparent due to weak typing and inversion of control.</div><br /><div>Result - finding bugs becomes harder. Action - use screens to target finding time and resources</div><br /><div>Fixing Vulnerabilities in a Virtualized World is a problem because how do I locate the controls when interfaces run in Beijing, Bangalore and Boston?</div><br /><div>Result - synchronization and/or replication of security policy is problematic. Action - decentralized policy enforcement points and policy decision points. &#0160;</div><br /><div>Interoperability</div><div>Finding interoperable vulnerabilities</div><div>XSS - Javascript is an equal opportunity offender - interoperability for developers and attackers alike.</div><br /><div>Fixing interoperable vulnerabilities</div><div>App servers, ESBs, and services are the attacker’s red carpet to your enterprise, right into your book of business. Interoperable access control can be leveraged across the enterprise.</div><br /><div>Use XML signature for authentication and integrity&#0160;</div><br /><div>&lt;SOAP:Envelope&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>&lt;SOAP:Header&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">		</span>&lt;WSSE:Security&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">			</span>&lt;ds:Signature&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">				</span>&lt;ds:Reference URI=‘#body’&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">		</span>&lt;/WSSE:Security&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>&lt;/SOAP:Header&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>&lt;SOAP:Body wsu:Id=‘body’&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">		</span>…</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>&lt;/SOAP:Body&gt;</div><div>&lt;SOAP:Envelope&gt;</div><br /><div>Use XML encryption to protect sensitive data, don&#39;t pass sensitive data in the clear</div><br /><div>&lt;?xml version=&#39;1.0&#39; encoding=&#39;UTF-8&#39;?&gt;</div><div>&lt;soapenv:Envelope xmlns:soapenv=&quot;http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/&quot;&gt;</div><br /><div>&lt;soapenv:Body&gt;&lt;ns1:echo xmlns:ns1=&quot;http://sample01.samples.rampart.apache.org&quot;&gt;</div><br /><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>&lt;param0&gt;My Credit Card Number&lt;/param0&gt;</div><div>&lt;/ns1:echo&gt;</div><div>&lt;/soapenv:Body&gt;</div><div>&lt;/soapenv:Envelope&gt;</div><br /><div>Encrypt the data</div><br /><div>&#0160;&lt;wsse:Security xmlns:wsse=&quot;http://docs.oasis-open.org/wss/2004/01/oasis-200401-wss-wssecurity-secext-1.0.xsd&quot; soapenv:mustUnderstand=&quot;1&quot;&gt;…</div><div>&#0160;&#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160;&lt;xenc:EncryptedKey Id=&quot;EncKeyId-3020592&quot;&gt;</div><div>&#0160;&#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &lt;xenc:EncryptionMethod Algorithm=&quot;http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#rsa-1_5&quot; /&gt;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">		</span> &lt;xenc:CipherValue&gt;</div><div>XNQ0a4legiie5mWFxO6CQkk2hhldYNnKroObue/LXS/VYtvaTgMbCujhGExDi+vlkU//Qc2/T6mx0WVTmBMT3z8rogha8jD+nS9Zr2Bc3CwoTh2lh8wL3D0DEu91iwJT9JByLGXvt7v9lyuxK0ooDOYEClsH974CPmTs3tBC+GQ=</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">		</span>&lt;/xenc:CipherValue&gt; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160; &#0160;&#0160;</div><div>&lt;/xenc:CipherData&gt;</div><br /><div>To ensure that these controls are applied use automated tools like static analysis to scan for security mechanism use and coverage.</div><br /><div>In terms of reusability findings and fixes consider two bug findings</div><br /><div>Session management bug: session state is passed around to every component, service and user. Makes for many high priority findings in audit report, also the fix is required on virtually every program</div><br /><div>Data validation bug: Data access object (DAO) has a SQL injection hole. One major high priority finding in report. DAO used by many business logic classes, one fix location serves many classes&#0160;</div><br /><div>To bring these factors together, I generally use a scorecard index [6], so you can measure such things as transport security, message security, threat protection and so on. The hard work in developing the index is developing a useful scale. A scale for XML tokens could use the following</div><br /><div>0: no token</div><div>1: hashed token</div><div>2: hashed and signed token</div><div>3: hashed and signed token from standard authoritative source</div><br /><div>An example scale for XML validation could use:</div><br /><div>0: no validation</div><div>1: schema validation</div><div>2: schema validation against hardened schema</div><div>3: schema validation against standard, hardened schema</div><br /><div>These indexed scales are used to show maturity across the factors in the scorecard. The first part of the talk described value, the value assessment is used to focus time and effort on high value assets. The value assessment can be determined quantitatively. There is hard analytical work to qualitatively determine the scorecard, index, and scales, the quantitative value assessment is used to screen out high value targets for these endeavors. The scoring index is used to track progress and improve quality over time. In the best case scenario, automated tools are used to perform the checks described in the index, and once security is automated just like software developers we may see security innovation make progress in years not decades.</div><br /><div>Thank you for your time.</div><br /><div>1 &quot;Risk Management is where the Money Is&quot; by Dan Geer,&#0160;<a href="http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/20.06.html">http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/20.06.html</a></div><br /><div>2 Berkshire Hathaway 2007 Shareholder Letter by Warren Buffett, <a href="http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2007ltr.pdf">http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2007ltr.pdf</a></div><br /><div>3 &quot;Software [In]security: Software Security Demand Rising, by Gary McGraw</div><div><a href="http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1237978">http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1237978</a></div><br /><div>4 &quot;SOA and Newton&#39;s Universe&quot; by Pat Helland, <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/pathelland/archive/2007/05/20/soa-and-newton-s-universe.aspx">http://blogs.msdn.com/pathelland/archive/2007/05/20/soa-and-newton-s-universe.aspx</a></div><br /><div>5 &quot;Memories, Guesses and Apologies&quot; by Pat Helland, <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/pathelland/archive/2007/05/15/memories-guesses-and-apologies.aspx">http://blogs.msdn.com/pathelland/archive/2007/05/15/memories-guesses-and-apologies.aspx</a></div><br /><div>6 &quot;Web Servicres Security Checklist&quot; by Gunnar Peterson, <a href="http://arctecgroup.net/pdf/WebServicesSecurityChecklist.pdf">http://arctecgroup.net/pdf/WebServicesSecurityChecklist.pdf</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/information security">information security</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/information">information</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/information security spends">information security spends</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/safety information security">safety information security</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/versus information security">versus information security</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/information security budgets">information security budgets</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/information security budget">information security budget</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/software security">software security</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/software security space">software security space</category>
      <source url="http://1raindrop.typepad.com/1_raindrop/2008/11/the-economics-of-finding-and-fixing-vulnerabilities-in-distributed-systems-.html">The Economics of Finding and Fixing Vulnerabilities in Distributed Systems </source>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[Mamma.com: Insider trading and XSS]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/56fd5d403c630cbec7e9ec62becaafc5</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/56fd5d403c630cbec7e9ec62becaafc5</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[Mamma.com 's got issues other than Mark Cuban's insider trading allegations. As a point of reference for this conversation, Mamma.com is ranked 4064 on Alexa as of today
I won't profess to following...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<a href="http://mamma.com/" target="_blank">Mamma.com</a>'s got issues other than Mark Cuban's insider trading allegations. As a point of reference for this conversation, Mamma.com is ranked <a href="http://www.alexa.com/search?q=mamma.com" target="_blank">4064</a> on <a href="http://www.alexa.com" target="_blank">Alexa</a> as of today.<br />I won't profess to following Mr. Cuban's public life and the occasional antics. Obviously, he's a colorful and popular figure; certainly in Dallas, if not nationally. <br />What follows is not a judgment of Mr. Cuban or his pending legal challenges. I'm sure the process will play itself out accordingly.<br />A quick summary and some reference material:<br />The SEC has <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/blogspotting/archives/2008/11/sec_hits_mark_c.html?chan=technology_technology+index+page_top+stories" target="_blank">filed</a> insider trading charges against Mr. Cuban. "According to the SEC, Cuban dumped 600,000 shares, or all of his 6.3% stake, in the search engine Mamma.com (The Mother of All Search Engines), in June 2004 after learning about private financing that the company was proposing. By selling, he avoided losing $750,000, the SEC alleges."<br />The whole issue for Mr. Cuban was <a href="http://blogmaverick.com/2008/11/17/the-sec/" target="_blank">PIPE</a> financing because it's "dilutive to existing shareholders’ stakes."<br />That's the long and the short of the current issue, and again, not my real interest here, with the exception of the bet I made with myself regarding the probable web application security posture of mamma.com. <br />All this talk about a popular site immediately sets off the little bell in my head (I hear it a lot). <span style="font-weight:bold;"><br />"What's wrong with the site?" is always the first question I ask myself.</span> <br /><br />I was not disappointed. <br /><br />Mamma.com exhibits the following issues:<br />1) XSS vulnerability in the <span style="font-style:italic;">utfout<span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;"></span></span></span> variable.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kVOWaY1TAF0/SSNDBtG5jhI/AAAAAAAAAEs/rIT7buzVsao/s1600-h/mamma1.png" target="_blank"><img style="cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 184px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kVOWaY1TAF0/SSNDBtG5jhI/AAAAAAAAAEs/rIT7buzVsao/s320/mamma1.png" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5270129685521075730" /></a><br /><br />2) XSS vulnerability in the <span style="font-style:italic;">qtype</span> variable.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kVOWaY1TAF0/SSNDSxiGVeI/AAAAAAAAAE0/E-McmPqvoDQ/s1600-h/mamma2.png" target="_blank"><img style="cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 201px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kVOWaY1TAF0/SSNDSxiGVeI/AAAAAAAAAE0/E-McmPqvoDQ/s320/mamma2.png" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5270129978766677474" /></a><br /><br />3) XSS vulnerability in their Mammajobs site at the <span style="font-style:italic;">pid</span> variable. This one's weirder still; if you drop an IFRAME in, it simply redirects to any URL you include in the IFRAME string.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kVOWaY1TAF0/SSNDd-U7c0I/AAAAAAAAAE8/GCrCAoYom5k/s1600-h/mamma3.png" target="_blank"><img style="cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 99px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kVOWaY1TAF0/SSNDd-U7c0I/AAAAAAAAAE8/GCrCAoYom5k/s320/mamma3.png" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5270130171179660098" /></a><br /><br />4) The prospect of CSRF (rather pointless here given that its just a search engine, but but still defies best practices) appears likely given that mamma.com blindly accepts updates via GET and POST with no sign of a formkey (canary) in sight.<br /><br />I figured it best to stop there, and have submitted all these to Copernic (the Momma parent company). <br />I am however truly disappointed that an enterprise as ambitious and motivated as Momma/Copernic seems to have thrown the baby out with the bath water when it comes to web application security.<br />With regard to Mark Cuban dumping his shares: maybe he was afraid of getting pwned. ;-) All kidding aside, it's a shame that the whimsical and pessimistic thoughts regarding web site security that bounce around in my head inevitably bear themselves out.<br /><br /><a href="http://del.icio.us/post?url=http://holisticinfosec.blogspot.com/2008/11/mammacom-insider-trading-and-xss.html&title=Mamma.com:%20Insider%20trading%20and%20XSS " title="Mamma.com: Insider trading and XSS ">del.icio.us</a> | <a href="http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&amp;url=http://holisticinfosec.blogspot.com/2008/11/mammacom-insider-trading-and-xss.html" title="Mamma.com: Insider trading and XSS ">digg</a> | <a href="http://slashdot.org/submit.pl?url=http://holisticinfosec.blogspot.com/2008/11/mammacom-insider-trading-and-xss.html">Submit to Slashdot</a>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/mamma">mamma</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/mark cuban">mark cuban</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/cuban">cuban</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/engine">engine</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/engine mamma">engine mamma</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/xss vulnerability">xss vulnerability</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/site">site</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/insider">insider</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/web site security">web site security</category>
      <source url="http://holisticinfosec.blogspot.com/2008/11/mammacom-insider-trading-and-xss.html">Mamma.com: Insider trading and XSS</source>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[A late look at Interop NY 2008]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/a809cae08aacaa70769cecc5883f1d96</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/a809cae08aacaa70769cecc5883f1d96</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[Boy, time flies when youre having fun. Ive just gotten my first opportunity to look back at the statistics from Interop NY 2008. Of all the statistics, the ticketing ones have proven to be the most...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, time flies when you&#8217;re having fun.  I&#8217;ve just gotten my first opportunity to look back at the statistics from Interop NY 2008.  Of all the statistics, the ticketing ones have proven to be the most interesting - especially when you compare them to the Las Vegas show earlier in the year.  If you look back at the <a href="http://blog.sciencelogic.com/interop-vegas-2008-a-tale-of-user-error/06/2008" target="_blank">details of that ticketing review</a> the stats clearly showed that most tickets were opened due to user error.  In NY, while &#8220;user error&#8221; dominated the other categories, &#8220;facilities&#8221; came a close second.  The InteropNet Help Desk opened a total of 94 tickets during Interop NY.  Of these tickets, 42 turned out to be user error.  Coming in second, with 17 tickets were issues with the facilities, with the most common issue being cabling that had gotten damaged between installation and the time the exhibitor was trying to use it.   In Las Vegas, despite the show being significantly larger, we only saw 6 tickets of that type.  I guess you can chalk that up as yet another reason that doing shows at The Javits Center is so much fun! (Don&#8217;t ask Julia about dealing with the Javits Center. She&#8217;ll talk your ear off.)</p>
<p>After Interop Las Vegas you may have seen our analysis of the data that we collected and delivered in our NOC view.  I thought I&#8217;d recreate the same data for NY and do a short comparison.</p>
<p>1) Like in Vegas, uptime for the network 100%.  This is no small feat considering that we introduced a new wrinkle in NY, taking down the primary NOC while the education portion of the show was still going on.  This was a forced failover to the backup systems, and it went flawlessly.  I&#8217;d like to give a little credit to EM7 on the 100% uptime as it caught a failover to battery power that allowed AC to be restored before a series of critical equipment would have gone down.</p>
<p>2) Again like Vegas, the average monitored device in the show network didn&#8217;t even hit 10% CPU utilization.  Still lots of computing overhead availabe in the show network.</p>
<p>3) The NY show network wasn&#8217;t nearly as busy as in Las Vegas, sustaining an average of only 27Mbps of usage (versus 56 Mbps) in Vegas.</p>
<p>4) Power consumption for the network and NOC in NY clocked in at 445kwh per day, about 25% less than the Las Vegas show.  This wasn&#8217;t because the equipment was any more power efficient, but instead because the show was smaller and therefore there was less network gear.</p>
<p>5) Finally, a stat we didn&#8217;t track too carefully in Las Vegas, but that I find interesting.  During show hours the wireless network average 1,100 users attached.  That&#8217;s a lot of people and a lot of wireless devices.</p>
<p>The good news is there was nothing too unexpected in the data, overall the smaller show led to a smaller number of tickets and smaller consumption of resources across the board.  We hope to have the opportunity to work with the InteropNet team again next year and take a look at this data year-over-year for each show.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/vegas">vegas</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/interop las vegas">interop las vegas</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/las vegas">las vegas</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/wireless network average">wireless network average</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/network">network</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/interop">interop</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/network gear">network gear</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/user error">user error</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/tickets">tickets</category>
      <source url="http://blog.sciencelogic.com/a-late-look-at-interop-ny-2008/11/2008">A late look at Interop NY 2008</source>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[Rational Risk Management, Angry Italians, and Irrational Security Analysts]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/616867e9cd4e8203d8c23c0bef989749</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/616867e9cd4e8203d8c23c0bef989749</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[Hope you all had a great weekend. I had meant to point you earlier to a FAIR analysis that Chris Hayes did over at his Blog . But Ive been a little busy, and before I could mention it, Stuart King put...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope you all had a great weekend.  I had meant to point you earlier to a <strong><a href="http://risktical.com/2008/11/06/security-template-exception-part-2-%E2%80%93-the-assessment/">FAIR analysis that Chris Hayes did over at his Blog</a></strong>.  But I&#8217;ve been a little busy, and before I could mention it, Stuart King <strong><a href="http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/stuart_king/2008/11/ive-written-up-a-report.html">put up a kind of angry response</a></strong> on his ComputerWorld blog.  Snark aside, there are a couple of other really troubling aspects of Stuart&#8217;s reaction to Chris&#8217; analysis that I thought we could talk about this morning.</p>
<blockquote><p>The problem is that (Chris&#8217; analysis is) completely impractical. I&#8217;ll take a recent, and fairly typical situation as an example. I was taking issue with the manner in which remote access was being provisioned for a third party vendor to connect to a system hosted by one of our European business units. To cut a long story short, it was not only a breach of policy but highly insecure. I wanted the access to be disconnected, the business unit director wanted my risk assessment. And he didn&#8217;t want to wait for it.</p>
<p>To quote Chris Hayes, spending time on working out <em> <strong>the expected effectiveness of controls, over a given timeframe, as measured against a baseline level of force </strong></em>was not going to pacify an angry Italian fearful that my decision was going to cost him money. He wanted my explanation of the risk and more importantly, what I was going to offer as a solution to keep his business functioning</p></blockquote>
<p>As Chris is someone who actually does this for a living in a large company, and this is typical of his actual day job, I really find Stuart&#8217;s &#8220;impractical&#8221; comment to be, um, misinformed.</p>
<p>Also, I think Stuart mistakes the purpose of a risk analysis.  The purpose of the risk analysis is not to force someone to be &#8220;secure&#8221;, but to provide knowledge for decision making.  Using it as a &#8220;hammer&#8221; to knock in the nail of your personal risk tolerance impairs efficiency and in the long run retards &#8220;security&#8221; as it creates political resentment.  Seriously, who cares if something might violate policy or not in a pre-implementation discussion?  Policies are not stone tablets handed down from on high, they are state-in-time codification of the <em><strong>data owners </strong></em>risk tolerance.  This risk tolerance changes sometimes, and that&#8217;s OK.</p>
<p>To that extent, I appreciate (and I&#8217;m sure Chris does, as well) that risk analysis does not create rationality in the data owner.  Someone who sees you as a speedbump on the route to progress they may not be ready to appreciate your point of view even if it is stated in the most rational manner possible.   But it&#8217;s worth noting (and Stuart&#8217;s example is indicative of this point) that <em><strong>risk analysis does not create rationality in the analyst, either</strong></em>.  If one is being so &#8220;security minded&#8221; as to ignore the risk tolerance of the business owner - we&#8217;re bound to get a reaction similar to that Stuart encountered.  In fact, a practical risk analysis like Chris performed on his blog, done in 30 minutes, should identify the critical point of disagreement between Stuart and the data owner (again, Stuart doesn&#8217;t own the data, the agitated Italian does).</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s stay rational and open to alternatives to what Chris offers.  Stuart states his approach to risk analysis as:</p>
<blockquote><p>When I need to document a risk assessment I use a very simple form: list the threats, state the level of vulnerability, list the associated operational costs and potential revenue hits. High, medium, or low risk? Describe the controls and options. Write up who needs to do what, and how much of their time it&#8217;s going to take. Job done.</p></blockquote>
<p>At first glance, I don&#8217;t think what Chris has done is any less efficient, and it provides greater insight (using Frequency and Capability instead of just &#8216;listing the threats&#8217;).  But what is key here is that Chris&#8217; approach is consistent and defensible.  Less generous risk geeks and CSO&#8217;s I know would have no little difficulty with Stuart&#8217;s approach.  But to particularly answer Stuart&#8217;s main objection (impracticality) I would offer that with practice, Chris&#8217; work is probably quicker and easier than Stuart&#8217;s described process as it eliminates much of the ambiguity an immature risk analysis creates - reducing the need for further discussion and arguments with data owners (regardless of disposition or nationality).</p>
<p>Finally the irony of Stuart&#8217;s post is that the reason he had this confrontation may in fact be because he was incapable of bringing a salient model for risk to the table, one that identified the factors that create risk and developed a defensible belief statement concerning risk.   We&#8217;ll never know if one would have helped him in this isolated instance, but I can tell you that in organizations like Chris&#8217;, good risk models and strong risk anlayses create operational efficiencies, reduce costs, and streamlines intra-departmental communications.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/risk">risk</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/risk tolerance">risk tolerance</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/risk models">risk models</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/practical risk analysis">practical risk analysis</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/strong risk anlayses">strong risk anlayses</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/generous risk geeks">generous risk geeks</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/immature risk analysis">immature risk analysis</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/quote chris hayes">quote chris hayes</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/chris hayes">chris hayes</category>
      <source url="http://riskmanagementinsight.com/riskanalysis/?p=520">Rational Risk Management, Angry Italians, and Irrational Security Analysts</source>
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    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[Most Spam Came from a Single Web Hosting Firm]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/894b4e87cb13c364abc659a7aab3070a</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/894b4e87cb13c364abc659a7aab3070a</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[Really : Experts say the precipitous drop-off in spam comes from Internet providers unplugging McColo Corp., a hosting provider in Northern California that was the home base for machines responsible...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/11/spam_volumes_drop_by_23_after.html?nav=rss_blog">Really</a>:</p>

<blockquote>Experts say the precipitous drop-off in spam comes from Internet providers unplugging McColo Corp., a hosting provider in Northern California that was the home base for machines responsible for coordinating the sending of roughly 75 percent of all spam each day.</blockquote>

<p>Certainly this won't last:</p>

<blockquote>Bhandari said he expects the spam volume to recover to normal levels in about a week, as the spam operations that were previously hosted at McColo move to a new home.

<p>"We're seeing a slow recovery," Bhandari. "We fully expect this to recover completely, and to go into the highest ever spam period during the upcoming holiday season."</blockquote></p>

<p>But with all the talk of massive botnets sending spam, it's interesting that most of it still comes from hosting services.  You'd think this would make the job of detecting spam a lot easier.</p><div class="feedflare">
<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/schneier/fulltext?a=dOYuN"><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/schneier/fulltext?i=dOYuN" border="0"></img></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/schneier/fulltext?a=HEDZN"><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~f/schneier/fulltext?i=HEDZN" border="0"></img></a>
</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/spam">spam</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/spam volume">spam volume</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/spam period">spam period</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/spam operations">spam operations</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/recover">recover</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/recover completely">recover completely</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/home">home</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/home base">home base</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/machines responsible">machines responsible</category>
      <source url="http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/11/most_spam_came.html">Most Spam Came from a Single Web Hosting Firm</source>
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    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[What would you do if you knew the Air Marshal on your plane was smuggling Drugs?]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/6902b40b209c72e9190f6544d2968f20</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/6902b40b209c72e9190f6544d2968f20</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[According to a recent USA TODAY article, Federal Air Marshals have been convicted of smuggling drugs, molesting children, abducting a female escort during a layover in Washington D.C., hiring a hitman...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[According to a recent USA TODAY article, Federal Air Marshals have been convicted of smuggling drugs, molesting children, abducting a female escort during a layover in Washington D.C., hiring a hitman to kill a spouse and many other criminal acts. <br /><span id="fullpost"><br />The ex-Air Marshal who was convicted of smuggling drugs apparently used his position to work with a drug dealer to carry cocaine and drug money with him on flights around the country.  He was caught on tape telling an informant that he was "the man with the Golden Badge".<br /></span><br />We should remember though, that with a current force of between 3,000 - 4,000 (exact numbers are confidential), there are bound to be a few bad apples in the bunch - that is the way in every profession.  <br /><br />What makes it much more alarming when we talk about Air Marshals gone bad is the fact that at 30,000 feet in the air - their authority is absolute.  The last thing a passenger in a plane needs to be concerned about is the very person on the plane whose job it is to protect the passengers.<br /><br />The Marshal's decision making skills should be beyond reproach.  If their judgement is clouded over however, due to experimenting with the cocaine they are smuggling, the consequences could prove fatal.<br /><br />Perhaps the fact that prior to 2001, the Air Marshal service had an annual budget of $4.4 million and 33 agents which exploded to $786 million and between 3,000 to 4,000 agents today might have something to do with undesirables falling through the cracks.<br /><br />Not that rapid hiring needs are an excuse for allowing criminal behavior to go unnoticed.  The office of Inspector General or Internal Affairs needs to get actively involved and properly supervise the agency so that rogue Marshals are not allowed to remain in the service.<div class="blogger-post-footer">Visit Sexton Executive Security at www.sextonsecurity.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/air">air</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/air marshals">air marshals</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/federal air marshals">federal air marshals</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/marshal">marshal</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/air marshal service">air marshal service</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/service">service</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/drugs">drugs</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/ex-air marshal">ex-air marshal</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/plane">plane</category>
      <source url="http://www.thebulletproofblog.com/2008/11/what-would-you-do-if-you-knew-air.html">What would you do if you knew the Air Marshal on your plane was smuggling Drugs?</source>
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    <item>
      <title><![CDATA[Talking Engagement]]></title>
      <link>http://securityratty.com/article/b1376fcaf83b962af2522fd39ae76937</link>
      <guid>http://securityratty.com/article/b1376fcaf83b962af2522fd39ae76937</guid>
      <description><![CDATA[So, it finally happened. I was invited to talk at an Information Security Conference and I went and talked

My talk was about the risks of information leaving the organisation but I decided to add in...]]></description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[So, it finally happened. I was invited to talk at an Information Security Conference and I went and talked.<br /><br />My talk was about the risks of information leaving the organisation but I decided to add in the risks of information <span style="font-style: italic;">not</span> leaving the organisation.<br /><br />This may sound counter productive but in these though times your IT department should really be looking at using services such as GMail, your Marketing department should be looking at using Facebook, Twitter, Blogs etc. Your HR department should be looking through LinkedIn for new staff.<br /><br />If your Security Department is too tough on information leaving the organisation then you are missing out on opportunities. Of course, if you are too lax then information will make its way out and that can't be good for the company either.<br /><br />Information Classification is key. As is awareness.<br /><br />My speech was very well received, achieving over 8/10 for the different areas and I have been invited back to speak again.<br /><br />I must admit that my speech was aimed at business decision makers and not technical people and yet the people who showed up were more technical people. There are very few companies in South Africa (with my employer being a noted exception) that treat Information Security as a business issue and not (only) a technical issue.<br /><br />I'm not really one to tooth my own horn but I wrote this blog entry to thank a number of people who made my speech possible.<br /><br />Firstly thank you to the two blogs that I feel are on the forefront of Information-centric Security - <a href="http://securosis.com/">Securosis</a> and <a href="http://rationalsecurity.typepad.com/blog/">Rational Survivability</a>. I used some material from both sites and some that was sent to me by Richard Mogull from Securosis.<br /><br />I used some speaking tips that I got from <a href="http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/">Presentation Zen</a> so I didn't put everyone to sleep (even though my speech was at the danger time of 3:30pm when everyone is tired and wants to go home) and I used some (free!) graphics from <a href="http://www.sxc.hu/">Stock Exchange</a>.<br /><br />When I was preparing for the speech, I revisited some of my old Blog posts which I think I need to repost as I have some more ideas about them.<img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/SecurityThoughts/~4/452816173" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/treat information security">treat information security</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/information">information</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/security">security</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/information classification">information classification</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/security department">security department</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/information security conference">information security conference</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/technical people">technical people</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/people">people</category>
      <category domain="http://securityratty.com/tag/department">department</category>
      <source url="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/SecurityThoughts/~3/452816173/talking-engagement.html">Talking Engagement</source>
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